Keeping the full quote to share it on qubes-devel.
William Budington:
> Hey all,
>> I'm using whonix from within Qubes. I'm trying to find a way to
> remove the tor ports as an attack surface from the whonix-ws while
> still maintaining circuit isolation for applications run within
> workstations. Currently, I see that the tor ports are forwarded from
> the whonix-gw via rinetd.
>> Possible solution: a piece of software intended to be used on
> whonix-gw which opens one network interface per circuit, and
> provisions an arbitrary number of VMs with circuit-isolated,
> transparently torified connections without exposing the tor
> socks/control ports to them. That way you could run one application
> per VM which is on an isolated circuit, but has no access to the tor
> ports. Does anything like this currently exist?
>> Obviously this would be a bad solution for the Tor Browser, which
> relies on access to the tor ports to do per-tab isolation. But I
> figure it would be an okay solution for other applications that do
> not rely on such hands-on circuit control.
>> -Bill
Now my answers inside.
William Budington:
> Does anything like this currently exist?
tun2socks?
> I'm using whonix from within Qubes. I'm trying to find a way to
> remove the tor ports as an attack surface from the whonix-ws while
> still maintaining circuit isolation for applications run within
> workstations.
> Currently, I see that the tor ports are forwarded from
> the whonix-gw via rinetd.
re rinetd: Only those used by Tor Browser (and torchat). Other open Tor
ports on Whonix-Gateway (such as for HexChat) are under the current
implementation directly talked to.
(Not that it matters much for the sake of this subject: When you upgrade
Whonix-Workstation, anon-ws-disable-stacked-tor was migrated to socat.)
> Possible solution: a piece of software intended to be used on
> whonix-gw which opens one network interface per circuit,
It's an interesting idea.
So the application talks to a virtual network interface directly rather
than directly to a Tor SocksPort?
- Then this virtual network interface would eventually talk to a Tor
SocksPort?
- Okay, if I got that right, the application couldn't try to exploit a
bug in Tor's socks implementation. So the tun2socks application would
have to be more resistant against exploitation than Tor's socks code?
Eventually we use something like this [1] to configure specific
applications to specific virtual network interfaces?
> and
> provisions an arbitrary number of VMs with circuit-isolated,
> transparently torified connections without exposing the tor
> socks/control ports to them. That way you could run one application
> per VM which is on an isolated circuit, but has no access to the tor
> ports.
Hm. Alternatively it would be possible to configure Whonix-Gateway's
firewall to disallow any socksified traffic.
If you like to look into that:
whonix-gw Tempalte: /etc/whonix_firewall.d/50_user.conf or
sys-whonix: /rw/config/whonix_firewall.d/50_user.conf
WORKSTATION_ALLOW_SOCKSIFIED=0
(reload Whonix firewall 'sudo whonix_firewall' in sys-whonix or reboot)
[Of course also possible to make more fine tuned changes such as
disabling only specific SocksPorts...]
Disable stream isolation per application or globally, see [2]. I.e.
configure the application you want to use to use transparent
torification. [Which is the default, unless the application is
configured by Whonix default to use a Tor SocksPort. See list. [3].]
Multiple Whonix-Workstations using transparent proxying Qubes-Whonix are
already easily automatically stream isolated from each other because
they have a different client IP addresses and Tor default uses
IsolateClientAddr.
You'd end up with your application-A in a anon-whonix-one, that is using
transparent proxying and your application-B in anon-whonix-two.
anon-whonix-one and anon-whonix-two would be stream isolated
(IsolateClientAddr). Both stream isolated from each other. No Tor
SocksPort usage involved.
[Some thing would have to be sorted out such as sdwdate time
synchronization but I also have an idea here that I can specify if this
is of interest.]
It isn't the default implementation because in Qubes we are not so much
considering to run one VM per application, but one VM per security
domain (e.g., 鈥渨ork,鈥� 鈥減ersonal,鈥� 鈥渂anking,鈥� etc.) (multiple
applications per VM). And we wouldn't want to funnel all traffic from a
whole domain into the same Tor circuit.
> Obviously this would be a bad solution for the Tor Browser, which
> relies on access to the tor ports to do per-tab isolation.
(Tor Browser just talks to only a single Tor SocksPort. [And in the next
major version 6.5 it talks to a single unix domain socket.]) [Tor
Browser by tab isolates by (ab)using socks user auth.]
> But I
> figure it would be an okay solution for other applications that do
> not rely on such hands-on circuit control.
Certainly interesting to discover.
Best regards,
Patrick
[1]
http://superuser.com/questions/241178/how-to-use-different-network-interfaces-for-different-processes
[2] /wiki/Stream_Isolation/Disable_Easy
[3] /wiki/Stream_Isolation#List
[4] https://www.qubes-os.org/getting-started/
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